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 The challenge of finding peace in Lourdes

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Warrefok
Entheos


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Number of posts : 1056
Age : 68
Location : Pretoria - South Africa
Registration date : 2007-10-18

PostSubject: Re: The challenge of finding peace in Lourdes   Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:45 am

seacomic wrote:
... ... ... you not gonna win this one with me, thats for sure..... lol! Jive flower Jive geek Knipoog flower
I am not in a contest with anybody ... winning or losing doesn't even surface here ...
observation is the name of this exercise ... like you yourself observed ...
Kool Bra
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Warrefok
Entheos


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Number of posts : 1056
Age : 68
Location : Pretoria - South Africa
Registration date : 2007-10-18

PostSubject: Re: The challenge of finding peace in Lourdes   Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:22 am

SIMSI wrote:
... ... ... But , with the free will ...choice ... which God gave to man ... God, therefore , is NOT the dictator ,the cruel God , a term and accusation which you so often lay at His door , Ware ... But , the cruel god , is man and man alone ... ... ...
Let's see what the Bible tells us:

Mass Killings And Cruelties Ordered, Committed, Approved By God

The entire population of the earth at the time of Noah, except for eight survivors, in a flood. "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth; and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark." Gen 7:23 [Jehovah, the first mass-murderer.]

Every inhabitant of Sodom and Gammorrah, and the surrounding plain, by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven." Gen 19:24 Lot and his family fled. [What about little innocent children in the city and around on the surrounding plain.]

All the first born of every family in Egypt, including children of those in dungeons and the successor to the throne of Egypt's Pharaoh, by God on the first Passover night. Ex 12:29 [Of those that are in prison and the first born of the cattle ???]

All the hosts of Pharaoh, including the captains of 600 chariots, who drown in the Red Sea while pursuing the Israelites. "... and the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea." Ex 14:27-28 [The Christian God is so childish He has to murder instead of just making them too sick to walk.]

Victims who perish in the conquest of seven nations in Canaan by the Jews under Gods' guidance so that the Jews can occupy their lands as God had promised Abraham in Deut 7:1,2. The Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites were all destroyed, every man, woman and child and mercy was shown to none. [Would have made Adolph feel good.]

Amalek and his people, by the edge of the sword, because God wants to fight with Amalek from generation to generation (maybe just for fun). The Israelites win if Aaron helps Moses to hold up his hands. [At times of crisis, God gets whimsical. People are dying everywhere and God wants to see Moses's palms.] Ex 17:11,16

3,000 Israelites die at the hands of their brothers, the Levites, every man, their brothers and their companions. Ex. 32:27 [These were the orders of God who would brook no disloyalty, a self styled "jealous" God.]

Rulers of Israel, eleven in number after spying for forty days that wouldn't invade the Promised Land are killed by a plague. Num. 14:37 [The first term limitation?]

250 Levite princes of the Jews who challenged the leadership of Moses. When Moses points out the injustice of killing the whole congregation God relents briefly, then swallows up two of the princes, "their wives, sons and little children", then sent a fire to consume the remaining princes. Num. 16:1-40 [The Christian God lies too.]

14,700 people die by plague who protest to Moses about the prior killing of the 250 princes. Aaron makes an atonement to stop the plague. Num 16:41-49 [The Christian God seems bent upon destroying helpless people.]

The Canaanites at Hormah, utterly destroyed, every man woman and child, by God at the request of the Jews. Num 21:3

The Amorites at Hesbon, Israel "took all these cities". Moses sums up the slaughter: "We ... utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little ones." Num 21:25 and Deut 2:34

All the sons and subjects of Og, about whom the Lord said to Moses: "Fear him (the king of Bashan) not, for I have delivered him into thy hand." None was left alive. Num 21:34-35

24,000 Israelites who cohabitated with Moabite women and worshiped Baal. "And the Lord said to Moses, take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun..." Num 25:4,9 [Definitely a civil rights violation.]

All the males and the kings of the Middianites, because they worshiped idols, and all their wives and male children were sold into slavery. "And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, vex the Midianites, and smite them." Num 25:16-17 and Num 31:7-8

The subjects of two kingdoms on the east side of the Jordan, in order that Reuben and Gad might seize the land for their own as a gift from God. Num 32

The Ammonites, decimated by the Lord so that Lot might possess their land. Deut 2:19-21

The Horims, slain by God in order that Esau might take their land. Deut 2:22

All the citizens of Jericho, except for a whore and her family. "And they utterly destroyed all in the city, man and woman, young and old, and ox ... with the edge of the sword." Josh 6 "They" make a grizzly game of it , using the superstitious number 7 popular in the Bible. [Joshua competes with Moses, the leader he replaced, for the title of Gods number 1 hit man as he follows Gods orders.]

12,000 men, women and children die in a treacherous ambush conceived and directed by God. Joshua, with the usual mindless hocus-pocus, holds out his spear until all the inhabitants are dead. The city was then burned. Afterwards Joshua builds an altar and offers thanks to God. Josh 8:1-30 [A political monster worships a Murderous Monster of a Deity.]

All the people of Makkedah, and their king hanged, by Joshua. Joshua 10:28

All the people of Libnah. Not a soul remained. Joshua 10:29-30 [Joshua and God were agreed upon the finality of capital punishment.]

All the people of Gezer, with none remaining, are killed. Josh 10:33

All the people of Eglon, none remaining, are killed. Joshua 10:34-35

All the people of Hebron, "All the cities and souls that were in them". Joshua 10:36-37

All the inhabitants of the country of the hills, and the south of the vale, and the springs and their kings, he left none remaining but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded. Joshua 10:40 [Joshua simply kills everyone else.]

The inhabitants of Gaza, Askerlon, and Ekron, killed by Judah and Caleb. Judges 1:18-19

10,000 Moabites, killed by the Israelites. Judges 3:29

10,000 Perizzites and Canaanites die at the hand of Judah and Simeon. Judges 1:4 [Isn't it nice how the body counts always come out as nice round numbers?]

120,000 Midianites die by the hands of Gideons three hundred men. Judges 8:10

50,070 people of Bethshemesh, struck dead by God because a few of them looked at/into the Ark carrying the stone tablets. 1st Samuel 6:19 [The murderous Christian God keeps the grave-diggers busy with overtime burying the innocents.]

70,000 victims (more round numbers?) die of a pestilence sent by God because David took a census. 11 Sam 24:15

Although Adam and Eve have no sense of right and wrong when they eat of the Tree of Knowledge, God accuses them of sinning and tosses them out of their home. Prejudging the human race he then decrees that all shall suffer for this "sin" by returning to the dust from which Adam was made. The Christian God curses women with painful birth. Gen 3

Cain kills Abel because God is partial to altar sacrifices, preferring animals to grain. Gen 4 [The Christian God plainly doesn't like vegetarians.]

At the time of the Flood, a disaster not uncommon to the tradition of other religions, Noah, an imbiber, and his family are the only persons deemed righteous enough to be saved from drowning. All others, including pregnant women and children, are given no opportunity to survive the rising waters. Gen 7,8

Again attributing sin to innocents God fails to find even 10 persons, or embryos in any stage of gestation, saintly enough to escape the fire and brimstone (Biblical napalm). God turns Lots wife into a pillar of salt when she looks back in horror at what is happening to her friends and neighbors. Gen 19 [Today many Christians oppose any abortion as a God forbidden murder. Where is the logical precedent here? The Omnipotent Christian God is the Abortionist to abort all abortionist.]

Abraham is certainly willing to do what ever the Lord demands of him, even when God orders him to kill his son. But all turns out Ok when an angel yells really loud to Abraham that it was just a test to see how much he loved God. Isaac is very lucky indeed. Abraham may have been near deaf at his age and the Angel was calling long distance from heaven. [Truly a miracle.] Gen 22

When Sarah gets jealous and insists, proven Abraham consigns Hagar and Ishmael to the deserts to die. Gen 21 [Does this qualify as domestic abuse or violence?]

Pharaoh orders all midwifes to strangle new born Jewish children. Of course they refused. Pharaoh then orders them to throw the babies into the river. Ex 1:18,22 [What's interesting to note here is that some Christian parents at the present time deny their children blood-curdling television and give them blood-curdling Bibles.]

Moses kills an Egyptian deliberately for beating an Israelite. Ex 2:12 He then becomes God's Lawgiver. One of his commandments straight from God is thou shalt not kill (murder). [Two wrongs don't make a right. Was Moses a murder even before he led the Israelite rebellion??]

God tries to kill Moses, because his son by a Middianite woman is not circumcised. His wife, angered, circumcises the boy with a sharp rock and throws the foreskin at Moses's feet. God then lets Moses off the hook. Ex 4:24-26 [God has priorities, including the horrible genital mutilation of young boys.]

After first purposely hardening Pharaoh's heart so that he will not see the Israelites free, God, through the black magic of Aarons rod, visits ten terrible plagues upon the unsuspecting Egyptians. Ex 7-11 [Even the innocent animals are victims of this truly evil black magic.]

The needless, brutal slaughter of the Passover night is the intended result of another hardening of Pharaohs heart by an egotistical maniacal God who wishes to parade his power. Ex 12:29 [Thus God continues his propensity for making the innocents suffer for the guilty which culminates in the crucifixion of His own innocent Son Jesus.]

More heart hardening by God causes Pharaoh to chase the Israelites into the Red Sea, where the soldiers die by drowning. Ex 14:28 [If God could harden pharaoh heart he could have caused pharaoh to let them go free. Nothing to it.]

For "offering strange fire before the Lord", two sons of Aaron, priests of the tabernacle, are struck dead. Lev 10:1-2 [Not to worry, replacements are on the way.]

A blasphemer curses the name of God in the wilderness camp, and God orders him stoned to death: "And he children of Israel did as the Lord commanded Moses. Lev 24:23 [The rocky terrain of Palestine broods ill for miscreants and protesters. (Again God could have changed his heart and not killed him.)]

Israelites who complain, with good reason, in the desert, are burned with fire by God in the uttermost parts of the camp. Num 11:1 [Evidently the Christian God loves the smell of roasting, poaching, baking, broiling or burning human flesh.]

Seeing that the Jews are dissatisfied on their journey to the Promised Land because they have no flesh to eat as they had in Egypt, God typically loses his temper again and in a childish way sends a vast excess of quail, enough to cover the ground a days travel in each direction and they stack up to a height of more than 3 feet. As the people started to eat the fruits of their labor "God smote them with a very great plague." Num 11:31-33 [I guess it was better to be a vegetarian after all. Remember Cain?]

The Israelites are forced to wander for 40 years in the desert so that the older people would die. Num 14 [The Christian God despises old people.]

A man caught picking up sticks on the Sabbath is ordered by God to be put to death, and the wandering tribes comply. Num15:35-36 [A novel approach to the homeless problem?]

Challenge of the authority of Moses (remember him murdering people in Egypt?) by anyone always brought out the worse in God, and he buries _alive_ the wives and children of the two princes who oppose Moses. Num 16:32-35

After striving to reach the Promised Land for forty years, Moses and Aaron are denied entry because Moses had struck a rock in anger to obtain water. Moses is allowed to look at it once though just before he dies. Num 20:11-12 and Deut 34 [The Christian God might have shown a little compassion for Moses who was probably at his wits end.]

God turns Miraim into a leper after she criticizes Moses for marrying an Ethiopian woman. Such unions were contrary to Jewish custom and also disapproved of by God for everyone _except_ Moses. Num 12:10 [The Christian God is a misogynist being.]

Mass Killings And Cruelties Ordered, Committed, Approved By God
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PostSubject: Re: The challenge of finding peace in Lourdes   Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:47 am

Warrefok wrote:
seacomic wrote:
... ... ... you not gonna win this one with me, thats for sure..... lol! Jive flower Jive geek Knipoog flower
I am not in a contest with anybody ... winning or losing doesn't even surface here ...
observation is the name of this exercise ... like you yourself observed ...
Kool Bra

lol! I meant your goading, WF....I, me, am taking it personally, hence my replying to your "love thy neighbour, etc"..nothing you say about my religion is going to upset me....I have my BELIEF.....you have your way of thinking.......thats what I meant about "winning".... flower ...figure of speech, WF....figure of speech...thats all....
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PostSubject: Here is your answer , Ware   Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:47 pm

Man's choice resulted in the fall (sin).
Simply stated, sin
is disobedience to God. He is the Creator and should be obeyed. Even
more important, God is Himself the standard of what is right. Sin
causes spiritual separation from God and physical death. Separation
occurred because God is perfect and pure. His purity cannot dwell with
sinfulness and His justice cannot allow it to go unpunished. As a result of sin, the natural world was also cursed and
began to die. The ground became less fertile and food became scarce.
Man had to work harder to harvest much less. Mankind would also realize
the effect that sin has on human relationships, leading to cruelty,
murder, lust and causing disharmony within the family.
Mankind continues to sin,
living in rebellion against God, the Creator. This is why the world is
filled with suffering today. Man must take responsibility for
destroying the perfection of God's creation. Because of our sinfulness, man cannot know and experience God's love and fellowship,
no matter how hard he may try to reach God on his own through good
deeds, religious rituals or philosophies. "For all have sinned and fall
short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
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PostSubject: Re: The challenge of finding peace in Lourdes   Today at 12:46 am

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